>> gary b., bull or bear on this? >> drones at this point have a better chance. >> okay, we are going to deliver the best business block coming up next. neil takes it away. pump it, then tax it. i don't know about you, you've had enough of it. welcome, everybody. follow the money if you can even find the money. because it is not easy to get out of the democratic congressman when he's looking for money. not just a little more money. oregon's guy wants to double the taxes because he says our infrastructure needs the dough. i asked

can you spell out for me congressman where that $42 billion has gone? >> the sbujt available for every state. the budget is available for every state. >> if the goal was to fix roads and bridges, and they're still, accurately to your point, falling apart, me think someone has stolen it, someone it was taken it. >> wow. right. i should never have interviewed somebody with a bicycle pin on

their lapel but that's neither here nor there. here's the deal, if we're already collecting more, than 120 million bucks each year to fix our roads and bridges. i haven't factored in the $800 million in stimulus money that was supposedly going to shovel ready road jobs, are politicians just trying to shovel it to us? that's what we're trying to get to. adam couldn't make it today, he's at a flag burning protest. okay, what are we to make of this? >> i love the interviee. you're absolutely right. by the way, it's lunacy. we're going to make it for so many people hurting this economy. we're filled with taxes. we have tolls, we have property taxes -- >> it's not enough. what he's saying to me, it's not enough. >> every day, i pay 12 bucks to cross the george washington bridge. >> how would you know? did you see what your limo driver -- >> i read it in a newspaper.

>> got you. >> you're not counting all the billions, tens of billions of dollars state and city bonds issue every year to build inf infrastructure. >> very good point. >> you didn't bring up the fact that we've been talking about an infrastructure prices for the last 30 years. >> yes, i did, you just saw a clip of the interview. i think you're very judgmental. that certainly came up. >> you're all out of your mind. the federal gas tax -- let's talk about one tax. the federal gas tax. it goes to the highway trust fund. it hasn't gone up in 20 years. but the cost of road repair and road construction has gone up 55%. >> you don't think a lot more people would drive? >> i think that the gas tax -- >> you think just because it hasn't been touched for 20 years -- >> it is declining revenue source because our cars are more fuel efficient -- >> what about -- >> that's not what we're talking about, we're talking about one

thing -- >> no, no, no, that's part of it -- >> you need more money, you have other resource, why to you need more money? >> you do need more because since 2008, the general fund has contributed $41 billion to the federal highway trust fund. you're asking people, you're basically -- drivers are not paying their way -- >> wait, let me just finish one thing -- >> wait, let me -- >> i pay 12 bucks a day. i'm not using up -- >> you don't know that for a fact. we are not paying -- >> so you are for what this congressman -- you're agreeing with a guy who has a bicycle pin? >> i don't have a problem with asking the drivers to pay because you're essentially by taking money from the general revenue fund of the treasury, you're asking people who aren't using the roads to pay. i don't think that's fair. >> okay. ben stein. >> well, the whole idea basically is a subsidy transfer from the taxpayer to motorists, unions. it is very expensive to have a

stretch of highway or bridge repaired. we're having a lot of it done in beautiful southern california. the wage, that these gentlemen get for their work which seems to me mostly of leaning on their shovels -- >> be careful there. >> well, not to talk about your father, charles -- >> yes, you are, yes, you are. he built haeighways. >> these guys are leaning on their shovels and they're getting paid $100 an hour. >> $100 an hour? >> yes, that's the subsidy from the taxpayer who are earning way less than that to a union worker -- >> $100 -- >> can you, for god's sake, let somebody else talk? >> get to your point. >> go ahead. >> $100 an hour -- >> i don't know if that's right or wrong. all i was trying to get out of the congressman and all i was trying to factor in with the millions we're spending every year and the point about stimulus money, if you average that out, it's close to $2 million a year and i didn't even

address the money we have through my municipal bonds and all the rest. i want to know what you have done with that money. i just want to know what you've done with that money. because it slipped through a lot of cracks. it's a locked box for which there is no lock apparently or apparently a box. >> well, first of all, you're right there should be government accountability for every penny we spend. it's 13 bucks to cross the bridge now, not $12. you're working on inflation -- >> you're in a stretch limo and you're sitting in the back, it's hard to see. >> i think more than two axles is usually more and charles usually drives big suvs. to the point charles is making, first, the money you're paying to crossing the george washington bridge is not going to the transportation trust fund, it's going to rebuilding the trade center and airports and port authority, nothing else. >> you see my point -- >> i do, yes. >> a lot of these funds were originally earmarked, pardon the term, for, you know, ingrab

structure-type issues, roads, bridges, the like. then it goes to other uses. much is targeted. that's the danger. >> you're right, but dagen is also like 100% right in that we haven't raised this in 20 years. if you're using the roads, you have to pay your way. >> the other sources of revenue were supposedly going to just that purpose. if you've exhausted -- hear me out. this is what i'm talking about. charles payne, here's what i'm saying. if you have exhausted all those funds and you can account for all those funds and they're still not enough to prevent bridges from falling down and fix all of them, by all means, have at it. this congressman and others have not been able to account for that funding. they've not been able to explain why they keep coming, to dagen's point, $40 million short. >> the money is always the verdict. when that bridge fell in washington state a couple years ago. the money they got from the stimulus package alone, very

little of that actually went to bridges and tunnels. very little of it. they got billions of dollars from the federal government and it went to pet projects. ultimately, i think the more money we give government, the more ways -- when the world trade center's rebuilt, my toll will not go down, it will only go up from here. >> if you're not paying the tax, who's going to pay for the george washington -- it's going to collapse underneath you -- >> gary, let me ask you -- >> the port authority of new york, new jersey, pay -- >> you know new york very well. i don't know whether your dad was around. remember when they built the verrazano bridge? they said when the bridge is paid for, the toll goes away. the bridge was paid for like about 20 years ago. the toll's still there. >> they said that about every major project. >> that's my point. so follow that money. i'm just saying, if after all of that you still need more money because you've accounted for that money and we're still coming up short, but they can't account for it. >> my view is this should be a state and local issue. if the port authority of

new york or new jersey wants to raise tax, let them do it, let them screw the people in new york, not the people in i'd e iowa. >> i'm blown away that my dad made $100 an hour. >> you know very well i didn't say that. it would be nice if he had. >> i agree. >> bottom line, since you're for raising these taxes, i think there's a little bit of northeast elitism. because you mixed it with a southern accent. do you think that this guy is going to get his way? people are going to say, he is right, we haven't touched this in 20 years. >> no, because people get so angry, everybody, i don't care -- >> why do you say that! >> liberal or conservatives. you proved my point. liberal or conservative, right or left, when you talk about that, people go bananas. the american people look at all of the taxes they pay in terms of fuel at the state level. tolls that they pay. >> this is a -- a tax like this

would be very regressive, right? >> it's very regressive so it hurts poor americans more than -- >> people get offended when they find out the government, federal and local governments make more money from gasoline than opec does. >> 90% of the road construction and transportation costs come from the gas tax. so the vast majority of -- >> all i know, this is -- no, this is in new jersey, when i first got married, living in the state, now the grandparents of the kids who were first working on those repairs, the grandkids are continuing that work. it's unfinished. >> but you know what i have to say, if you don't believe in paying your way in terms of the gas tax, you don't have the right to bitch about potholes and stuff going wrong -- >> what about -- >> i'm talking about the national gas tax. >> i'm not going to get angry but i disagree. meanwhile, if one is the loneliest number, the health care law might need some attention, right now.

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ask your doctor about tamiflu, prescription for flu. we're live from america's news headquarters. i'm jamie colby. we're learning more about the funeral plans for nelson mandela. take a live look now at south africans hold several large ceremonies. before the anti-apartheid leader is buried in his rural hometown on the 15th. president obama as well as former presidents george w. bush and bill clinton will head there in the next few days. mandela died on thursday in his johannesburg home after a long battle with a lung infection. meanwhile, defense secretary chuck hagel landed in afghanistan late last night in an unannounced visit. he's expected to meet with our troops and afghani ministers but his trip comes after negotiations fell apart with afghan president hamid karzai to allow our troops to stay in the country past 2014. so far, secretary hagel is not scheduled to negotiate with him

on this trip at least. i'm jamie colby. back to cav vuto on business. keep it right here on fox. you know, we were still yelling at each other on the break. we've got to get along here. one and done. because if a new study is right, that's how many times the president met one on one with his health and human services secretary kathleen sebelius since the health care law was passed more than three years ago. this is according to the institute which tracked the official white house calendar. you've worked for a different number of white houses. the president can call you up at the last second. that might not be formally on the calendar. i'm trying to think, he might not have scheduled something on the calendar but would call her. it had to have been more than once, right? >> i don't think it had to be more than once because it was a signature initiative, a signature project. but he obviously dropped the ball. he had an idea or somebody gave

him the idea or somehow he thought of the idea. but then he obviously didn't follow up. so the fact that he did not meet with her more than once now seems to me not strange at all considering how badly screwed up the whole thing got to be. it's a shame and it's deeply unfortunate. i know when i worked for mr. nixon and mr. ford, they met with their people all the time. they were not as avid golfers as mr. obama is -- >> oh, come on. >> but ford was a very good golfer. >> he was. i guess what i'm trying to get a handle on here is it's so unbelievable to me, i tried to give every doubt to the president that he called her up or she called him. at face value it looks like he got his wish, he got his signature lejs lashgs bravo, it was a true you've for him, whether people like it or not, it was a signature achievement, then he dropped the ball. >> ben's right and i'm -- >> whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, what did you say? >> ben is right.

breaking news. ben stein is right. except for the part about nixon. he probably should have played more golf, it would have gotten him into less trouble. >> bill clinton played a lot of golf and it did not avoid trouble. >> there are a lot of golf analogies we could talk about. ben's right, obama dropped the ball on this. it doesn't surprise me he may have only met with her once because he certainly didn't do anything else he needed to do to make this rollout a success. look, obama care, said this before, is a good policy. the implementation is horrific. >> poorly executed. the nebraska senator who's now heading up all these insurance commissioners, he was telling me, i thought it was revealing, that they did wince at the time when the president said, if you like your doctor, you can keep your doctor. i said, i don't remember you saying that at the time. he said, we did relay to the white house, i don't know who in the white house, that this was not feasible. there's a lot of liny covering

here. i'm wondering if it's all part of the same story. of not keeping in contact with the health and human services secretary, the secretary not following up on warnings presumably from those in congress who were getting leery, something that could never happen. >> it was a complete failure to communicate regardless of how many meetings there were. to paraphrase judge judy, somebody didn't have their listening ears on because there was nobody listening to anybody. whether the information was getting put out there or not. shoot, you could have read "the wall street journal" and known that the website hadn't been tested, there were going to be problems. mckenzie's study out earlier in the year saying, hey, here's a litany, a list of problems that could occur. nobody was on the case. for whatever reason. nobody will ever know. >> touche by the way, for inserting judge judy into this economic discourse, way to go. >> didn't do much on the stimulus package. remember all those shovel ready jobs? not there. paid no attention to dodd/frank. farmed it out.

by the way, we still have too big to fail. this is modus operandi for this guy. >> i do think the only thing ivg seen is a lot of people involved with unions. but everything else, i think the president just was very arrogant and thinks it's a done deal. >> i love you bring the unions into this. >> let's blame the unions for everything. >> when we come back, judge judy. kidding. leave it to holiday shoppers to show why the private sector should be handling health care. saying record online sales on cyber monday pretty much all you need. they'll explain at the top of the hour. up next, unions there are seeing red. ya know, witnew fedex one rate

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ready for bankruptcy and union members are getting ready to scream. it

you know what i just found out? she's quoting judge judy. you know judge judy is on opposite me at 4:00 p.m. eastern so she's quoting someone who is trying to put me out of business. >> dvr it. >> dvr this. well, no putting the brakes on a detroit breakdown. the judge declaring the way for the nation's largest bankruptcy. that means the public unions could be losing big time as the city tries to plug an $18 llion debt. they got the green light. >> they got the green light. the unions are big time losers

but detroit and other large cities and states are huge winners. let's be honest about this. you have an alliance where the unions put manpower, money and boots on the ground to get politicians elected and they kept lavishing these amazing promises and it kept going on and on. >> all of a sudden you'll have a lot of commune nis palts say don't negotiate. just declare bankruptcy. >> detroit is going to be barred from the markets for a long time. i wouldn't extrapolate too much from this. the unions control new york city hall. bill de blasio, all his aides are close to this. new york city is going to head in that direction. >> do you agree with that? >> i don't. this is good news for the bond market and for cities that are

struggling because it gives them negotiating leverage. >> put the fear of god in them. >> right. so they won't have to -- >> julie, do you agree? >> i do, actually. both parties gave away the unions in the 90s like drunken sailers in their right to get political support. it went too far. they have a commitment that's a legal contract. even in bankruptcy the unions may get screwed on this. >> didn't the judge take that into -- >> we'll see. charlie is right that this is not a good precedent to set. >> the bond holders got screwed before you deal with the unions. this isn't good for them. >> that is exactly my point. we're not sure who is going to get screwed. the unions or the bond holders. it's going to be for the court to figure out. >> ben stein? >> detroit is an incredibly sad commentary on the collapse of

nonwhite urban america. it's unbelievably sad. you can say it's the union's fault but the basically story is a story that's being replicate in other cities in america and it's a terribly sad story. >> you're right about that. no matter how you come down on this, i want to thank you all. good seeing you all again. up next, an up and down week for stocks. how about picks that can make you green whether the market goes up or down?

stocks that pay money no matter what else. charles, what do you got? >> allayer yan fund. they pay huge dividends and i think it has room to the upside. >> dr. stein? >> i'm glad you remembered that i'm a doctor. kmb which is a pipeline partnership, pays a superb

dividend. it has very good tax treatment. >> do you leave a lot to your family? >> that's a very sensitive question, too sensitive to answer. >> i'm taking it all for me. kids, you're on your own. guys, thanks very much. >> that is a dangerous and growing inequality and lack of upward mobility that has jeopardized middle class america's basic market, that if you work hard you have a chance to get ahead. >> president obama this week blasting income inequality, but are his policies to blame. welcome to forbes on fox. let's go in focus with steve forbes and others. steve, have his policies helped or hurt income disparity? >> it's hurt. this is the most miserable recovery in american history.